Losers!

People voted fairly.

Get over it.

Stop whinning.

Voting fairly is quite different from voting intelligently.

Anyway, there is a mountain of evidence that disproves the “fair” part, too.

i think the point is that [for me at least] we love considering ourselves americans - but cannot now stomach using the same label as the half who voted for dubya. its monumentally depressing to imagine that what i consider to be “american” is no longer [in the world, or here at home] the accepted definition.

besides, to those who complain about “whining”… to dissent is patriotic. remember your history lessons.

Voting machines that register NEGATIVE vote counts could be part of it…

If any of you neo-cons would truly read AND comprehend W’s record, you would have voted correctly….

I am sorry for our children who will be paying for W’s rampant spending for MANY generations.

Isn’t that just wonderful?

I am happy that someone made this website www.sorryeveryone.com. Of course when I tried to visit it today I was rerouted to another site and was unable to visit the website.

Anyway for those of you that think this was a fair election you are surely mistaken. This election was a psychological ploy on the part of the Republican party to control its citizens. They use words such as “moral values” and base their entire campaign as if God came down from Heaven and gave Bush this mandate over our country. I was born into the Roman Catholic faith and I believe that God would be sick to know that his name was used in vain (one of the ten commandments) and used as advertisement for a political party that has sent 100,000 troops over to Iraq to fight a war that they cannot win. But God forbid that I say that because then I am anti-american and I am not supporting the troops. I have friends who are being sent to Iraq and Afganistan as I am writing this post and it is sad to say that I dont know if they will be coming home anytime soon. But the Republican party has nothing to lose from this war and only can gain. Gain money from defense contracts, money from controlling the oil fields, money from producing guns/tanks and anything powerful enough to blow shit up. But did Bush, Cheney, Powell, Rice, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and Rove sacrifice anything or anyone for this great country we live in ? No of course not. If Bush’s daughters were brave enough to enlist like many young girls, who don’t have the money to pay for college or can’t afford job training to secure a career not just a job, would he have been so quick to send us to war then ? I doubt it.

And as for safety. This war on terror is another psychological play on words to make you think that we are to be on constant alert and to rally behind our great leader. The war on terror is another form of control. For all the morons who think Bush is a great leader pick up the book 1984 in which Orwell describes the power war can have over its people and how war only perpetuates a cycle of control over its people. There has never been a time where we were less safe and yes we have not been attacked since 9/11 and I thank God for that living in New York my entire life. But is that because Bush is a strong leader or maybe it is because people at the CIA, FBI, police agencies, airline security feel vulnerable enough where they are actually doing their job to the best of their abilities.

But dont worry people as long as their are uneducated idiots in the south and people who put all their faith in the church, but dont realize the point of true equality under God’s eyes the Republican party can spin any issue and motivate the masses to give them power while they support big business that has been sending jobs overseas and slowly but surely diminishing the American working class little by little. But poverty and equality is not the issue to deal with is it ? we would rather deal with gay marriage and abortion. Its easy to say God is against homosexuality and abortion because God cannot defend himself. But let me pose this question to you? If we are all God’s creations then why would he create a certain amount of human beings that would have to live their entire lives as social outcasts and be unaccepted by society. Was it a mistake? Does God make mistakes? Never was there a time where we need God to come down and set our asses straight. And if he were do you think he would be wearing a Bush/Cheney T-shirt no…God would come down and sue the shit out of the whole entire Republican party for copyright enfringement. Using his name without direct authorization. God will tell all of us that everyone should live equally. No one should live on the streets, everyone should be able to get a top notch education, there should be no job discrimination, women should be given the right to choose. God would come down and punish the rich for creating a system that keeps them at the top and the rest of us struggling to stay in the middle. He would punish big business for sending their factories overseas to exploit his children making them live off intolerable wages and in intolerable conditions. He would come down and ass fuck George W. Bush and Karl Rove for tricking 51% of the American people into thinking that he was the poster child for moral values.
Lets see Bush’s moral values: He fights for the lives of unwanted babies and unfertilized eggs, but he is willing to send troops over to Iraq to fight an unjust war. He ignores problems like poverty, americans without health care, complete domination by big business/corporations. Would Jesus send away the sick because they didn’t have medical insurance? and if he lived in a world that did would he not try to change that immediately.
Bush ignores poverty and job loss because those issues are too complicated for a C student frat boy to handle and deal with. He would rather stand against gay marriage because he knows that more than half the country is scared to death that the sanctity of marriage is being contested. Sanctity of marriage is like an oxymoron when we live in a country that has an over 40% divorce rate.

Anyway I am just rambling on because there are alot of things that concern me more then they concern the Leader of the Free World George W. Bush. But Bush shouldn’t be concerned because he has lived a priviledged life and doesn’t know how the majority of Americans scrimp and safe, live hand to mouth just to survive day by day/ year by year. So crack open a Bud light conservatives everywhere, because when you voted for Bush you voted for death, war, complete disregard for the environment, big business and the growing gap between the richest 1% and the other 99% of the country.

If anything could come of this maybe the Democratic party could get some balls and take a stand and appeal to their base the intelligent free thinking people that abolished slavery that gave women the right to vote that made abortion legal and made businesses show some kind of loyalty to their workers. If you like or dont like my post I can care less. This is what I feel and if you dont like it this is America and I cant say fuck you to you. And to the rest of the 48% of America that knew Bush was an asshole from the get go dont give up the fight because sooner or later the rest of the country will realize the truth and become enlightened somehow or someway. Thank You

I am an american living in Canada. I belong to no particular party. But I love the United States. Frankly such hate mails smells like treason to me. People voted, people decided and it’s up to losers to reunite with winners to create the NEW USA.
By the way, before pronouncing oneself so vehemently and blindly against a political policy,I would also suggest to the ignoramus bunch to study the problems of world politics carefully and at length by analyzing all possible aspects. One may be against Bush, but one cannot overlook the necessity of certain actions. To all those who are against the war in Irak, you remind me of ostriches who hide their heads in the sand and declare being the righteous.
Like the young rebelous child in the family against parents, oblivious of sacrifices to insure their security etc-In order to learn
your lesson I would suggest to the republicans to throw you to the wolves. There! That’s how one stops enraged offsprings to become more serious threats to public security. FINAL SUGGESTION:READ ABOUT THE MIDDLE EASTERN HISTORY FROM A TO Z (start from 4000 B.C.)AND THEN PRONOUNCE YOURSELVES.VOILA.

Wow, it’s really hard to hold back my characteristic snark here, but let me try to do this without going out of my way to be offensive.

Trisha: Apologizing to a world that hates us because of our president’s foreign policy isn’t whining. We have a right to express our discontent with the system, and a duty to ourselves to remind the world that not everyone in this country is a gun-toting, fag-hating, flag-waving, slack-jawed yahoo like the president and his supporters. You don’t like it? Well, get over it and stop whining.

Rene: the “smart ones” lost the election for two reasons: 1) evidence indicates that it was rigged and 2) if it wasn’t rigged then intelligence is clearly becoming a new minority in this country.

Christina: It is not a fact that the people apologizing aren’t very smart - it’s your opinion. You’re entitled to it, but please don’t pretend that because believe it, it’s absolutely true. Those of us in the so-called “reality based community” have a problem with that kind of thinking.

Charles: Hear, hear!

Alix: As an anti-war democrat, I’m not hiding anything in the sand. Coincidentally, neither was Saddam - no WMDs, remember? No plausible threat. Invading Iraq is a huge waste of money, time, and lives that has only resulted in encouraging anti-American sentiments the world over. George W. Bush has been the best thing for Al-Quada recruiting since Osama bin Laden.

Okay, so maybe I won’t hold back on my characteristic snark.

This is a very interesting/amusing/disturbing thread. Interesting to read the whole thing. Amusing to see people is willing to cling onto a topic this long. Disturbing to realize how much blindness is there in the world.

Just open your eyes, whoever wants to open them… Just the fact that there is a discussion going on proves the point. It’s not about convincing anyone that you are right or wrong. That makes you as one sided. Be the difference, stop asking everyone else to think differently.

This girl in sorryeverybody states in a proper way:
http://72.3.131.10/upload_files/se1475.jpg

Be the change you wish to see. Period.

El Hector, you are perfectly right. Perfectly, terribly, wonderfully right. But I have to say this, because I’m still got that dark angsty feeling in the pit of my stomach and I just have to say this once. Possibly to make up, in some twisted way, for not saying it every single second back when it actually mattered.

Terrorists don’t wake up in the morning for a nice slice of toast and a healthy hatred of freedom and love and liberty. While very few Good Little Republicans would actually die for the god they plaster so freely onto bumper-stickers on the back of their SUVs, it is a general accord amongst the religious-minded that dying for your religion is a thing to be honored and stained-glass-windowed.

I don’t condone the terrorists’ actions. Similarly, I don’t think that just because the US wore a short skirt meant that 9/11 was even in the *faintest way* justified. But I know troops in Iraq. They’re my age, some younger. And so I ask: is “supporting our troops” a matter of tying yellow ribbons to our white wooden porches, or asking why the hell they’re risking their lives in the first place? Is a nation run by a greedy bastard somehow worse than a breeding ground for people who believe harder than we do that their god wants them to kill us?

Some people think Iraq happened because President Bush knows that it’s the Good Christian Thing to be global hall monitor and sack all of the bad evil in the world. Others think it’s a matter of oil, a dirty trick to fuel a wasteful culture. And the big thing?

It doesn’t matter, because, morals or not, George W. Bush is a man who honestly lacks the ability to see the difference. I just don’t want the rest of us to lose that, too.

Bianca, that was awesome. Excellently put. Bravo.

Actually—I really hate to bring this up, but I feel that I should—a Democrat *did* win four years ago—I don’t have the links anymore, but if the counts had gone on, Gore would have scored Florida. Would he have handled 9/11 differently? I honestly don’t think so. But I don’t think he would’ve kicked sand in the UN’s face, either, and maybe he would’ve worked so that the rest of the world only disliked us, as opposed to sneering whenever we’re halfway mentioned in every context.

Also, I should point out that God is not the President of the United States. Seriously. He’s not. While the founding fathers did *not* put “under God” in the pledge of allegiance (that was added during the red scare to distinguish us from the godless, dirty commies), they did write quite a lengthy bit about the separation of church and state.

So I get a bit testy about the US defending the “sanctity” of anything. A church can decide whether or not they decide something is sanctified. They might be whoppingly hypocritical about it, but they’ve done the homework and it’s their right to decide. Why? Because a church is (theoretically) unable to force its ideals onto other people. A country, however, is capable of doing so. A country’s job is not to determine what’s holy from what’s unholy. We start prefacing any of our laws with “So God says…” and we’re playing with things that maybe we shouldn’t be.

Alright… I will grant that, Christina. It’s a very valid point. There will never exist a time when everyone will universally like our country. Still, Bush hasn’t even been pretending to give a flying fig about the rest of the world. Maybe this wouldn’t be an issue if we didn’t actually need other countries’ help. But we’re getting to the point that we really do. US foreign policy has to change, and while this change might not have occured under Gore, either, it is definately not going to happen under the Bush administration.

So yes, I slipped there. I’m more interested about how you see the other issues I raised, though.

Yeah, I believe we do need other countries’ help but it seems like we help others and then we’re abandoned when we need it.

But anyway, on the issue with God. I know that he’s not President but I do believe we need leaders who believe in him and who worship him. I remember a day when we actually prayed in school and I liked it. I believe the President will do the best he can but I guess we’ll never know how hard that is. Do we know for sure if Kerry would be have been a good President? No. Do we know for sure that he’d be the worst? No.

Also, by snubbing the UN, yes it probably hurt the President but you know I guess he just got tired of playing by the rules and wanted to kick some ass and it didn’t really work out that well.

I hope that the future will be a bright one for all Americans—and for other countries as well. It just seems like the world was crying out for us to do something after 9/11 but then some of the other countries turned their back on us when we did.

To Christina: Christina I have read the bible and there are many passages talking about healing the sick and feeding the poor. But does W. want to address those issues no he would rather dwell on homosexuality. Because he knows he can move the ignorant people living in the majority of red states to push him forward in this issue. And what do you care whether gays or lesbians get married. Who actually gives a fuck. Its not like any gays or lesbians are taking your children or friends and sending them to fight in a country that doesnt want us there. Its not the gays and lesbians that pollute and ignore the problems of the environment. Its not the gays and lesbians who take jobs away from americans because they demand an actual wage they can live and raise a family on. ITS THOSE FUCKING GREEDY REPUBLICANS THAT DO ALL THIS. It is greed and fear that runs this great nation of ours not freedom and equality.
And if you were too stupid to realize this anyway the Bible was written by a or many different men not by Jesus or an actual God. And althought I do believe there is an almighty creator I dont think he lives in a building made of gold and supports men who rape young innocent boys. God lives within every action we do or dont do. He is looking down at us hoping we have true “moral values” not the ones bush whored to the American people to win another 4 fucking years. For those of us who are less fortunate to get an education and think reasonably I will school you all on this little fun fact: Bush is an asshole. He lives by the words of the Bible but does that make him a great man? He is a corporate whore who has no agenda but to make him and his friends even richer. The only God he invests in is the word that is printed on the cash coming into his pockets every day. Why do you think he started this war for the freedom of the Iraqi people. Christina tell me this would you be appreciative to a country that sends “smart” bombs killing innocents and destroying your land only to hear them telling you that we are doing this for your own good. Many innocent civilians died in Iraq because of Saddam I do agree, but many more are dying right now because of our involvement there. There was no justification for this war and many are dying on both sides and this is only to benefit the Texas oil billionaires since the prices of oil are increasing every single day. But christina I am sure you have the luxury of telling me I am wrong because you yourself havent sacrificed a God damn thing for the war effort.

Calm down charles, this is a family web log..

No, actually, it isnt. Its for everyone. Unfortunately getting upset at the stuburness (excuse my spelling) of people is useless, and getting them angry is counterproductive.

I believe that happiness is the final goal of anyone living. I also believe that we all have freedom to try and reach happiness in our lives, as long as we don’t get in the way of other people. I also believe that we can all help each other to find happiness.

I am against Bush’s way of doing things because he is going totally against this ideal. In his speeches he only talks about America’s well being. It is extremely selfish and dangerous for the worlds most powerful country to think only about itself. Of course, from looking around you can see that he himself is exactly like that on a personal level, more interested in getting power and money, than on the good of the rest of the people.

I thought that we lived in a modern world were people were educated and had realized that there are limits to power and that peace and equality are more important. 9/11 proved me wrong. But what really shocked me was Bush’s reaction. Crashing planes into thousands of peoples is a terrible thing. Sending an army to kill thousands of people CANNOT be less terrible. We live in a sad world when a power hungry set of individuals control the world’s most powerful country.

And you want to know why many people in the world hate America? Partly, I’m pretty sure there’s a little bit of envy. But mainly its because the american people (this is an extreme generalization.. its these generalizations that cause stereotypes) are extremely conceited and believe that they always know more than any other culture in the world. You can see it in the movies and the literature and you can witness it just by going to any holiday resort around the world.

This concietedness (I hope that word exists in English) is found in extreme in the current American president. Add to this his hunger for power and complete selfishness and you have reason to believe that we are back in the middle ages, in the time of crusades and things that history tells us are quite terrible.

Oh, and this is just a theory, but I believe that 9/11 would not have happened if the American government treated other countries with more respect. That is, if Bush wasn’t treading on everyone’s feet, nobody would have wanted to hurt him.

Gabo.

I have been reading this thread and I would like to throw my two cents in. But first, Sergio (and all the rest of the regulars), thank you for providing yet another source of amusement and distraction from work for me over the past 10 months or so.

I am an American citizen. I grew up outside of the US as the child of a US Soldier and I can say as I have grown up that the world’s opinion of the US has changed dramatically over the past 20 -25 years.

Of course there have always been a number of countries that did not like us and continue to dislike us. The reasons are range from pure spite and envy to very valid reasons based on poor decisions that US foreign policy makers have made. However in the past few years America seems to have gotten a big head. I mean we did win the cold war… single-handled. It was just us with good old Ronald leading us in the good fight. I think that we have forgotten that we are members of a world community. We knew after World War II when we went out of our way to work with others (i.e. NATO, the UN etc).

I think that this president has taken it to another level in the past 4 years. Now we have not only alienated countries that we have never had a working relationship but also those countries where we had a very close working relationship over the past 50 years. Bush does not seem to have a problem with that. I know that if one of my close friends from my child hood told me I was behaving like an ass I would at least stop to consider whether he was right. Bush refuses to do that. This is interpreted as being “resolute” and maintaining “moral responsibility”. His motivation is irrelevant. It does not matter if he thinks he is right or if he is motivated by greed or just plain too dim-witted to see the consequences. We all will suffer because of it. When my brother ships off next year it does not matter.

What we need to do is reevaluate if we (the american citizens , because we are the only ones that can do anything about it) are willing to deal with the repercussions of this administration’s policies, both domestic and foreign. Are we willing to hold the tax burden of a unilateral war? Are we willing to bear the brunt of the casualties in a war that was not a priority in the war on terror? Are we willing to accept the marginalization of a segment of our own population because of discriminatory practices against homosexuals? Are we willing to no longer have working relations with long term friends and trading partners?

Whee, I almost wish there was sort of a way to lure other people into this discussion… it’s making people think, and that’s really, really cool.

I find it odd that people think that today’s concept of the separation of church and state is the same as the one that the founders of America would agree with. Every law that America has is founded upon Judeo-Christian tradition and the founders would have had it no other way. What the founders wanted to avoid was the *Christian* denominational divisions that lead to the english civil war and the mass exodus of the Independent denominations commonly known as Puritans.

Notice that there are no laws here that protect other faith’s practices. Like polygamy or female circumcision or teenage prearranged marriages or “self-mutilation” or animal sacrifices etc etc.

Once we realize that it becomes clear that calling for a separation of church and state is not very effective. The two are intertwined inexorably.

What we have to call for is a separation of laws that protect an individual (NOT institutions like marriage) and dogmatic principles based on tradition. Taking the term “church” out of it makes it a lot less volatile.

I find brynmor’s post highly interesting. It puts current US foreign policy in a very clear context. That’s exactly what a lot of countries think of the US right now (“you better watch your step, if they’re this arbitrary when choosing who to bomb… you may be next)

We’ll have to see what happens in the next 4 years of Bush’s kingdom (that’s what it is, really). As someone put it: The only good thing that came out of this is that now he’ll have to clean up his own economic mess in his country.

Here’s crossing my fingers that he does not do it by invading yet another unrelated country under the pretext of a terrorist threat.

James, that is an interesting article, and has a few valid points, but I’m pretty sure that it would be easy to concoct one that is reversed, and shows Republicans in the light of being gun-crazed (“no” to the ban on assault rifles for individuals? Do they hunt deer with M-16’s?), racist (there’s *a lot* of examples for this), religious fanatic (“fighting the fight of God?”, “Knowing ‘what God wants’”?) crazies bent on a senseless holy war against an intangible enemy they believe is haunting them everywhere.

Moreover, most Republicans don’t have a firm grasp of reality, as evidenced by the fact that many of them answered pre-election polls regarding current events utterly wrongly (believed that WMD’s *had* been found in Iraq, thought that the original idea for the war was to “liberate Iraq”, were convinced that Bush would lower taxes, etc.).

See how easy this is? Piling up a lot of personal opinion without any dissenting views and calling it fact is a logical fallacy.

I know not all Republicans are like this, but please don’t defend your arguments with non sequiturs.

James - That was a very good point. Bush as Charles I.

The funny thing is that people in the US seem to confuse a “god fearing person” with a person who pushes his personal faith as public policy. The real reason as that some people (esp. Dem.) are seen as “less moral” is because the do not allow thier personal belifs affect how they vote in a secular goverment. Is this a good idea? I don’t know.

The abortion issue is a strange on because the core question that it asks is when does life begin. I think everyone agrees that life should be protected but when does an egg move from being part of a woman’s anatomy under her control exclusively to being an autonumous body with the rights of protection given to every human? Anybody have an opinion?

I thought Afghanistan was in retaliation for 9/11 - that’s where ‘Al Qaeda’ was supposed to be hiding.
Did anyone in UK watch the ‘Nightmares’ program on BBC?
Basically the politicains hold power by using our fears of the ‘unseen ever present enemy’ that they ‘know’ all about.
Al Qaeda as an organization doesn’t exist, that’s just what they tell you.
look for
‘Al-Qaeda: The True Story of Radical Islam
by Jason Burke’ on Amazon - I had a url but is was too long

Here’s an idea… screw all those people with the I’m sorry stuff. what a bunch of pathetic whiners. that just makes America look like a bunch of pansies. To all those people on sorryeverbody.com, pull up your thongs, put on your coat, and get the hell out

Here’s another idea: Let’s shoot everyone who lacks a sense of humor. We start with you two.